Introduction
Welcome back to Community Resilience, a podcast created in collaboration with the Ecovillage Resilience 2.5 Degree Project, facilitated by the Global Ecovillage Network. I’m your host, Eva Goldfarb, inviting you to gather around the fire as we explore resilience, adaptation, and transformation in our time of deepening polycrisis. Our guest today has a long history with the Global Ecovillage Network as Ecovillage Design Education Instructor, Project Partner, Gen African Council Member, and 2019 winner of our annual Hildur Jackson Award for Exemplary Projects.
Mugove is a natural farmer and a community development facilitator, focused on the building resilience and food sovereignty in African communities. His mission is to use his life skills, land use design skills, and passion for the environment and community to listen, encourage, and inspire people to look after themselves and the environment, especially the next generation, as the custodians for the future. Over the last three decades, he has played a central role in the development of the integrated land use design process as a tool for inclusive and participatory whole school land design and community engagement.
Mugove has worked with communities and organizations across the African continent and facilitated the founding of the Regional Schools and Colleges Permaculture Program, or RESCOPE, in 2006, which now shares green technologies and permaculture techniques in Kenya, Malawi, Uganda, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. Today, Mugove serves the movement as a general coordinator for RESCOPE and the development facilitator for the Gudza Ramuka Ecovillage in Zimbabwe. I hope you enjoy our conversation on community resilience and the powerful act of connecting locally.
Please note that English is a second language for most of our guests. We do offer transcripts and our show notes at ecovillage.org/community-resilience. And now, without further ado, I give you Mugove Walter Nyika from Gudza Ramuka Ecovillage in Zimbabwe.
Interview with Mugove
Welcome Mugove. It is an honor to have you here today. I wanted to start by just inviting you to introduce yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better. Who you are, where you are, how you became involved in the movement.
Mugove: Thank you very much. It is also my pleasure to be here. So my name is Mugove Walter Nyika. I am based in Lusaka, Zambia, but I work with several school communities across Eastern and Southern Africa, so Kenya and Uganda. I am working with the regional schools and colleges, permaculture network, RESCOP in short. And I’m also working with my home village community called Gudza Ramuka Ecovillage in Southern Zimbabwe. So Zimbabwe is where I was born and grew up in that community, where I am now supporting them to develop their own pathway into a more sustainable future. Working with RESCOP, we are using schools as entry points into communities. So we use also ecology as an entry point into ecovillage development, because most of the communities have access to food and other ecological issues as some of their pressing needs. So I got into this work because when I was a young boy growing up, I was living with my grandparents who were producing a wide range of organic foods that we used to enjoy. The environment also at that time was very rich.
There were a lot of wild harvests, such as mushrooms, fish that we used to get. However, over the years, I’ve seen the deterioration of the environment and also a very tragic movement away from natural farming towards chemical farming, and also the simplification of the agricultural landscape, which led to narrowing of the diets, resulting also in malnutrition and food insecurity. So having had this rich background, I was saddened to see that I could not show my children the wide range of foods that I used to enjoy. So I got inspired to do this work so that at least maybe my grandchildren will be able to enjoy some of the foods that have been lost in my community. So this is the inspiration behind the work that I’ve been doing.
Eva: Thank you so much. That was a really lovely frame of your motivation. I’m wondering if you can help situate us a bit. I know you are currently in Zambia, but your project that you’re developing is in Zimbabwe. Can you share a bit about these two regions, where they are, what makes them special?
Mugove: Thank you. So I am living in Zambia, Lusaka, and within Zambia, I am working in the southern part of Zambia, a community called Anamunga. It’s in a fairly dry region of Zambia, so we are focusing on helping this community to strengthen their rainwater harvesting and also to develop climate resilience in that community.
In Zimbabwe, I have, over the last three years, been helping my community, Gudza Ramuka, to also connect to sustainability. And in this community, we have lost a lot of diversity that we used to have in natural heritage, not mentioning also the cultural heritage that was also eroded as a result of the impact of colonialism, neocolonialism, and globalization. So I’m trying to reconnect the community, not only with their natural heritage, but also with their culture and with their own story as well. The young people in particular, when they attend schools, they are given a story which is not coming from their own people. So we are reconnecting as a community to our own stories, to our own culture, to our own natural heritage and our interpretation. So yeah, those two communities are really the center of the work that I’m currently doing.
Eva: You have already touched on this a bit in terms of resilience, both culturally and ecologically, I’ve heard, as well as all of the other dimensions. And I’m curious in your opinion, what you think the most valuable tool for resilience ecovillages can share with the world? Is there one tool that you think is really helpful and could be widely adopted?
Mugove: Yes, the most exciting capacity development processes that I have gone through in the whole of my life have been the permaculture and the ecovillage development education. Those two really changed my life and gave me a lot of tools that I’m currently using. So I find that the permaculture is a very, very useful tool to reconnect people with nature. And it also is very useful in terms of changing mindsets, because the greatest challenge that I face in my work is that of negative mindsets, where people have been basically sold a dummy by adopting the Western model of development, the industrial model of development, which disconnects people from their environment. So permaculture has been very useful as a tool for reconnecting people with the environment and also with an appropriate mindset. And this has been enriched with my experience also of working with ecovillage design education tools, where my experience has been broadened to include the work in the social dimension, the work in the worldview dimension, and the work in the economic dimension of sustainability. Already from permaculture, the integral design has been a very useful tool to connect all the things that we do so that they make sense and they work as a system rather than as isolated elements. So yeah, these tools have been useful in transforming not only landscapes, but also the minds of the communities that we are working with. So I’ve really enjoyed working with the permaculture and ecovillage design education tools with the communities in not only Zambia and Zimbabwe, but also in Malawi, Kenya and Uganda.
Eva: Both permaculture design and ecovillage design are quite broad topics. I’m wondering if you can think of one specific tool that a listener could practice maybe today?
Mugove: Yes, earlier I mentioned that connections to nature, culture, and the past have been very important for the work that I’m doing. And what I found very useful is to always start by grounding. So grounding is something that is a very important tool, which helps to reconnect not only with oneself, but within all the other important things. Because in the Western model of development that people have been following, we have the rat race. People become so busy that they lose their connection. And some of the tools that we use is a technique to reconnect with the phenomena around us. We explore a particular aspect of whatever is around us. We use all our senses to connect with that aspect, that item, and as we use all our senses, we are also reconnecting. When we take time to look at all the senses, it means we are also connecting with ourselves. So it’s important to have such exercises, such as Mystica, to get grounded, to get connected with whatever is around us.
Eva: Thank you so much, Mugove. I just want to offer my compliments. I really love the way you tell stories and answer questions. They’re very full circle. Today, we’re going to look a bit at resilience through the framework of your projects. And I’m wondering, through your work with the Resilience Project, what you’ve learned about the processes that you’ve been in, how either Gudza Ramuka or Rescope, as projects and as communities, have seen resilience come through them. So how you’ve responded to change, what resilience maybe means to these communities, but telling a bit about the story of resilience with your specific projects.
Mugove: Yes, through our involvement in the Resilience Project, I’ve seen the community in Gudza Ramuka, for example, taking time to engage with the issues that affect them. So we have been empowered, starting with the historical timeline, and also engaging with the process of surfacing issues that affect the community. Through the Resilience Project, the community is realizing that they can regain control of their issues, regain control of their future by engaging in a collaborative way together with the issues that are affecting them. So it has been quite a useful journey for both Gudza Ramuka, Ecovillage, and also for RESCOPE, because we are also sharing these tools with the five country chapters, the schools and colleges, permaculture programs in the region. So gradually, we are influencing more and more communities.
Eva: Amazing. It’s wonderful to hear you sharing this knowledge. Specifically, you talked about the historical timeline that you did as a part of the community of practice for the Resilience Project. I’m wondering if there’s anything that stood out as important when you did that exercise. Were there any changes that were very significant in the past or patterns that you noticed?
Mugove: Yes, it was a very engaging exercise, because first of all, the young people in the community did not know some of the things that emerged. And what was striking is that the history of the community was greatly influenced by the colonial history of the country. So although the actual colonial engagement was something that happened more than 100 years ago, it was very interesting to see that the colonial legacy is still very much alive. So that really stood up. And also to see that although the colonial era is said to have ended with the independence of the country, but it was also striking to see that neocolonialism and globalization were on the same agenda of colonialism. So it was very easy to see how much this is still alive in the community and how much it influenced the development of the community in the past. So this was something that emerged. Also, what emerged from the timelines is that it was a very freshening to connect with the people we have called the ancestors. The whole story of the community revealed some of the people that played important roles and information about the roles that they played was surfaced. And this really helped people to reconnect with their identity and to reconnect with their history and to have a sense of pride in where they came from and how they were all connected in terms of the story that made them realize that they are all very well connected from the past that emerged from following the historical timeline of the community. So it was a very useful exercise.
Eva: Thank you for sharing all of that. I think you’ve already answered my next question as you talk about reconnecting to story and ancestors. I was wondering as you identified the strong influence of colonial times, even though they supposedly had ended as being really apparent in the community, I was wondering how you had dealt with that as a community.But it sounds like a lot of the tools used were also in the same context of really identifying your history and bringing pride, connecting again. I’m just wondering if you wanted to talk more about how you’ve adapted to realizing these trends.
Mugove: Maybe I’ll take that opportunity to also talk about something else that emerged from the timeline. Some of the divisions that are currently in the community were also connected to what emerged from the timeline. For example, the issue of religion, which was also part of the colonial legacy, and how the religion brought about some differences that are also currently an issue in the community. However, after these issues surfaced, people were able to draw strength from the fact that before these differences emerged in the history of the community, there was richness in terms of the strength of connection. People felt that they could still reconnect more and to work as a community to work on the difference that emerged. One of the things that emerged from this is that regular community meetings will help the community to work for a more sustainable future. They found value in keeping connected and in discussing things and working towards better understanding between the members of the community. One lesson that emerged is that by working together, they tend to tone down the differences in the areas of unity, things that bring them together. Working together is one thing that has emerged as something that the community is using to strengthen themselves, especially to work together towards a better future for the community.
Eva: You’ve touched also a bit through noticing religion and the colonial legacy, shifting the dialogue away from external influences and more to internal influences. As we walk through the map of regeneration and think about our different areas, how Gudza Ramuka as a community, how the organization structure has changed over time, and how the community has responded to these changes. We’ve talked a bit, but specifically in terms of how the community is set up. You mentioned how meeting in community-wide meetings has really strengthened your relationships and helped bridge differences. But just speaking through this adaptation of how your social structure has changed over time and how resilience has become stronger or weaker.
Mugove: That’s an important question because the structure actually has been affected by the colonial legacy. The government tended to concentrate power in one person. For example, in the community, we have a structure where there is the village headman. It has always been a man holding this position, which is one issue. But also, it emerged from a history that in the past, the community used to have various centers of power. The power was not concentrated in one person. For example, there used to be spiritual leaders, there used to be political leaders, and there used to be cultural leaders. So, there was no one person who had too much control over the community. As we started this work, we found that power was very much concentrated in one person, the village head. But what has happened is that as we worked through the resilience project, we supported the marginalized groups such as the young people, the women. What has emerged is that majority of the active engagement or participation has actually come from young people and the women. So, this has tended to empower them to take their space and to contribute towards the resolution of issues in the village. So, they’ve managed to take their space and express themselves. So, the structure is softening now. So, it’s really a difference now. The structure is kind of decentralized.
Eva: Thank you so much. That’s a really inspiring story of hope. I think culturally, across borders, a lot of work to do to decolonize, especially our leadership structures, and really include a wide range of voices. So, it’s really inspiring here that that work is happening. Kind of zooming out a bit, I’m wondering if you have thoughts on how shifting our human structures, as you kind of coming out of this colonial centralized power, including more voices, how does this make us more resilient, more able to cope with change? Do you have any examples that you can draw from that’s even with that?
Mugove: Yeah, I think it’s very important thing to really create spaces for people to engage, create spaces for voices that are normally silent to surface. Firstly, when you have more people involved or engaged, it gives them confidence, it gives them power, it gives them the space to contribute towards the resolution of whatever issues. It helps to eliminate the top-down approach that has been prevalent. I’ll give an example of Anamunga community. Challenges, for example, to get the communities to set aside time for meetings to happen. However, some young people who became very passionate about this work, they decided to take the space and help to mobilize the community, help to spread word about the meetings that needed to be held. So they managed to push the community to engage because they could see some value in the work that was happening, and they were kind of frustrated that the adults were not taking this seriously enough. So they mobilize themselves and whenever the community needs to meet, they really make an effort to make sure that the meetings do happen and they help in the various preparations. So they reclaim some lost spaces and their voices are now being heard and that helps to reduce the structures that were left by the colonial legacy. By broadening the engagement, end up getting the energy being shared by more people and that helps the community to become more resilient because more people will be trying to make a difference in the community. So we have seen this helping a lot in Anamunga community in Zambia.
Eva: Absolutely. As soon as something is held by a group, it becomes a lot lighter for each individual. I think this is one lovely example of shifting human structures can help make us more resilient. So kind of shifting our lens but also looking through community. When we talk about ecological shocks and stresses, I’m wondering how your community, how Zambia, how Africa in general is responding to shocks, what ecological shifts you’re seeing, and I don’t know, tips for being resilient through these major times of ecological shifting.
Mugove: Yes, the communities that we are working with and right across the continent, I think they are very much alive to the shocks that are happening. So for example, one major shock is the change in rent for patents, which had serious implications on farming and eventually on how families are able to access food because most of these small-scale farmers will produce their own food. So to cope with these shocks, it has really become evident that they need to break down. The current food system has been simplified to one, basically the production of very few crops, and one of them, maize, has become the staple food, although it’s not an indigenous crop in Africa. And the food chain has really been about maize, and the agricultural support system has focused on maize. And unfortunately, as a crop, maize has not been suitable for working against these shocks. So for example, it’s a very thirsty plant, it needs much more water. As a result, it doesn’t cope very well with the droughts that are becoming more intense and more frequent. So the communities have found that it helps to connect with the crops that have become orphans on their own continent. So for example, millet and sorghum were the traditional staples, but it’s now very rare to find these crops because the whole system has been centered around maize. And they’ve also found that it’s important to diversify their food system away from maize, and to look at other foods, such as cassava, which is also, in addition to being a potential staple food, but also is much more tolerant to dry spells. Communities have also realized that it’s important to control their own seeds, because the maize system, the seed has become a commodity, and farmers lost control of their seed. So regaining any aspect of this work. Also, in addition to control of the seeds, communities have found that it is important to reduce dependency on external inputs, such as fertilizers that come from very far away, and which are increasingly becoming expensive for them. So being able to make their own local organic fertilizers has been an important part of their journey towards strengthening their resilience.
Also, connecting to local foods has been an important part of that journey as well, because especially the young people have been more and more depending on the so-called junk foods, the processed foods from outside the community. So connecting to local traditional foods has been a very important part of that. And also quite critical has been the connection between food and health. During the time of COVID, people realized that those communities that relied more on their traditional foods, the impact of COVID was much less than those communities that are now just depending on industrial foods. So that meant that the communities realized the importance of connecting, reconnecting with their traditional foods. So a lot of things emerged from undertaking this journey towards dealing or coping with the climate and building resilience.
Eva: Before we move on to the economic dimension, I just want to touch a bit on the orphaned that you mentioned, millet and sour gum. And if there are farmers in Africa that want to return to the more traditional crops, but the seeds aren’t very available, if you have any advice for how they might be able to find these seeds?
Mugove: Yes, thank you. That’s an issue because the crops have truly become orphans. So the advice, first of all, what RESCOP has done is that we have promoted bio fairs or seed fairs where communities can showcase the seeds that they have. So the advice is that for people to find these seeds, they need to try to participate in the seed fairs or to look for seed fairs that are happening near them. We found this very helpful way of redistributing the seeds to those farmers that have developed an interest in growing their orphan crops.
Eva: And then how do people find these seed fairs? Are they on Facebook? Is it spread through word of mouth? Would it be most helpful for them to find a farmer near them and ask?
Mugove: Yes, the seed fairs they announced on social media. WhatsApp is the most common platform amongst participants. So we have WhatsApp groups that announced this, but also they can be found on Facebook. Also in some cases, because these seed fairs are happening at various levels, we have a local community level. We also have a national level. Seed fairs are also announced on the radio as well as on the print media.
Eva: Wonderful. Seeds are actually a great transition into the economic dimension. But just kind of touching on how economics plays a role in the overall resiliency of a community, if you have anything else to share on that topic.
Mugove: Yes, the economic dimension is quite crucial. And firstly, because it is one dimension that really motivates young people to participate because young people really think that money is important in doing whatever they want to do. Yeah, once you talk about raising incomes, the young people really become quite keen. But also in terms of building resilience, it’s important to stop the leakages of wealth from communities. So because the globalized system tends to drain resources from communities and that trade tends to deepen poverty for communities to retain their wealth and close the leakages. So for example, they need to realize that each time that they come from outside the community, it means that results in outflows of money from the community. So the economic aspects, especially the realization of the need to build local economies, is quite an important part of the janitor’s resilience, because it’s something that strengthens the livelihood of the people. And once the livelihoods of the people, the local people are strengthened, the welfare of the community becomes better. So for future investments, it’s important that people have got their own strengthened livelihoods, which they can tap into in order to invest into further resilience work that they need to do. So yeah, it is quite important to have some work on building local economies. And in terms of doing that, social enterprises are very important because they help to spread the cake, so to speak, because people group themselves and together they work on local enterprises. And that helps in the redistribution of income within the community and also retaining the incomes within the communities and thereby building stronger local economies that will help the communities to become more resilient going into the future. So it’s quite an important dimension to work in, in the journey towards resilience.
Eva: I’m wondering if you have advice, if you’re speaking to a young generation or youth, someone entering into maybe the workplace and wanting to build local economy through social enterprises. Do you have any life advice that you would bestow upon this person?
Mugove: Yes. I think for young people, we would advise them to connect with other young people because part of the colonial legacy, the aspect of individualization of life has been a big challenge. So the first step is really to connect with other young people. When you connect with other young people, it’s then important to look at your strengths as a group, share your strengths as a group, share opportunities there in your community. Then you connect your strengths to the opportunities in the form of locally available resources that are in your community. And together you can work towards developing some sort of enterprise that will be based on what is locally available and also based on your own strengths as a group of young people. That really is a way to start your journey towards economic empowerment and reducing dependency on just seeking for jobs. And initially you could do this as things that you do on the side, and then gradually you will develop the expertise and the confidence to make the social enterprises your mainstream cities, economic activities.
Eva: Thank you so much for your wisdom. We have talked a lot about what patterns are being broken, what colonial legacy patterns are being broken. And I’m wondering what historical legacies you’re really celebrating.
Mugove: Yes. One of the things that we are celebrating from our own cultural heritage, our own legacy is the issue of, I think in English they would be called something like work brigades, but it’s a concept of working together that we inherited from our ancestors. So this means that people organize themselves in a community to undertake difficult tasks, something that a household needs to do, which is difficult or which takes a long time to accomplish. The household would prepare some food and drink, and then invite the neighbors to come and do the task whilst enjoying the food and drink that the family has prepared. And in no time, the difficult tasks in the community will be accomplished, and they will be done much more easily because there will be many hands on deck to make simple of the difficult work that needs to be done. So in some of the local languages, this is called the N’imbe Ilima idea, which we inherited from our ancestors. And this is being revived and is helping people to fight back on the challenges that remain as a result of the colonial legacy. So that’s an example.
Eva: I can make a worldview bridge here. I spent last year in the Basque country at the community Arterra Bizimodu in Nevada, Spain. And in Basque culture, this is called the Ausolam, but it’s the same concept, getting together, working, providing food for those that show up to volunteer their time. This is a really beautiful practice. So coming a bit back to resilience and coping with change, I wanted to first talk specifically about your communities and then kind of shift to your personal resilience. Would you say that as a community, you’re becoming more or less prepared to deal with future challenges and changes and why?
Mugove: Yes, as a community, I think we are making progress, not very much, but progress enough for us to be confident that in future, we will be able to better cope. We are more and more connecting with the local, more and more connecting with the local wisdom in the communities. We are more and more connecting with our local traditions. So because we are connecting with what is local, this means we will be in better control of ourselves and to overcome new challenges because we will not depend on things that are outside our control, things that come from outside the community. So we feel that this is an important aspect of resilience. And also, it’s important that when we talk about what is local, for example, local seeds, we are finding that the local seeds are much more adapted to, for example, dry conditions. Not only that, but we are finding that they are also much more nutritious than the crops that have come from outside the community. So better nutrition means better health, and that’s an important part of resilience as well. And that’s important slowly, but surely on our way to becoming stronger as a community in Gudza Ramuka. This is such a fundamental realization when you come back to the land and really see that the crops that originated there are best suited for the conditions and the most nutritious, to name that again.
Eva: Thank you very much for bringing that to this interview. How do you build resilience in your life? Do you have any tools to share?
Mugove: Yes, it’s a very important question because I mentioned in the past that I found myself in the rat race where we tend to be so busy that we even forget ourselves. We forget to take care of ourselves. So I have come up with a realization that it is important to balance three things. The three things are community care, self-care, and group care. So I try to make sure that when I have time, whatever time I have, I try to distribute it in such a way that each of those three things get part of my time, so that one does not end up getting completely engaged in one at the expense of the other. Self-care is a very, very important part of personal resilience, which we often forget. So in terms of self-care, I always take time to learn about what contributes to good health. So I have a very strong interest in learning about health. When I learn something about health, I try to put it in my life because I have reclaimed my health from the health industry. So I no longer leave my health at the mercy of the health industry. Because I found that the industry is more interested in my money rather than my health itself. And that’s why they focus on symptoms. So I always try to understand the root causes of health issues that affect me as an individual. And then often I find that the root causes are within my control. And so when I have time for self-care, I take time to apply the lessons I’m learning from studying about personal health. And I found it’s been very, very helpful, not only in terms of maintaining personal health, but also even on my budget. On my income, I find that I’m having to spend much less money on maintaining my health and the health of my family because we are trying to address the root causes of some of the challenges. So in a nutshell, it’s about maintaining the balance between the need to care for our community, that includes the work that we do, care for the groups that we belong to, but also balancing that with the need to take care of ourselves. So yeah, I’ve learned to look after myself much more than I was doing in the past.
Eva: This all comes back as well to your kind of my theme that I’ve pulled away is connecting with a local. This has been a ribbon through a lot of your advice. Thank you so much for sharing. As we close, bringing it back full circle, I’m wondering if you can share one value or takeaway that you’ve had from being a part of the Resilience Community of Practice and Project with Jen as a closing.
Mugove: Yeah, I think an important value that I take away is this, the importance of connection. So connection in all its forms and also connection using all our senses, connection at various levels. I found this to be a very important thing. So we are starting all the way from connecting to ourselves, connecting to the people around us, connecting to where we came from, connecting to cultural and natural heritage, connecting to other groups and organizations. To me, that has been a very valuable message that I have been getting and which I find it is important not only for resilience, but it’s something that makes life easy, makes life easier in the end because usually all these connections, they have a feedback mechanism. So when you reach out to a connection, eventually you will get some positive response and this will help to build our own resilience, to make our own lives easier and they will help us to become more effective in whatever we are doing. So the whole issue of connection is really something that I’ve benefited from. And not only at individual level, but also even as RESCOP and as the Gudza Ramuka Village, we find this issue of connection to be really at the center of how we can be successful in whatever we are doing.
Eva: On that note, I have one last question, which is, how can listeners connect with you and your projects? Yes, we can be connected through various ways.
Mugove: So RESCOP, we have a website, www.seedingschools.org we can reach there. And as both RESCOP and Gudza Ramuka Ecovillage, we are also on the ecovillage.org/projects. So the GEN, Global Ecovillage Network website. So if we get to ecovillage.org, you will be able to find some information about us. We are also on Facebook/RESCOP Africa. That’s where you can find us on Facebook. We also on WhatsApp +260 978402378. We also on Twitter RESCOP program and also RESCOP program on Instagram and YouTube channel and on email RESCOP at seedingschools.org. That’s our primary email address. So we can be reached in various ways.
Eva: Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. I will include all of those channels in our show notes as well.I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today.
Mugove: Thank you too. It was a pleasure for us. It’s always a pleasure to share part of our principles that we hold dearly. So yeah, we are open to sharing our experiences and whatever we have to share.
Eva: Thank you.
Outroduction
I hope you enjoyed our conversation on community resilience and the powerful act of connecting locally. Please note that English is a second language for most of our guests. If you list anything, we offer transcripts and our show notes at ecovillage.org/community-resilience.
And as always, you can join us again next week as we continue the conversation over what it means to be resilient in our time of polycrisis. While you wait for the next episode of community resilience, we invite you to explore more about the ecovillage resilience 2.5 degree project by visiting us online at ecovillage.org/resilience. Talk soon.
GEN Staff
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